FROM CORPORATE LADDER TO CREATIVE EMPIRE WITH BROOKE DEVARD
Transitioning from a corporate job to making your side hustle a full-time career can be tricky to navigate, but Brooke DeVard’s shift to creative entrepreneurship, and becoming the queen of the Naked Beauty universe, was so well-executed it should be studied.
After years of climbing the corporate ladder—from interning at Vogue to working in social media at Ralph Lauren—Brooke switched gears, diving deep into marketing strategy at Viacom while simultaneously launching her podcast, Naked Beauty, in 2016. She later moved to Instagram as a Creator Marketing Manager, supporting creators as they developed IGTV channels. By 2023, Brooke decided it was time to invest all her energy into herself and grow Naked Beauty, her weekly podcast dedicated to beauty rituals and self-care.
“I think you reach a point where you realize that the opportunity cost of not chasing your dream or doing what you feel like you're meant to do is too high,” Brooke reflects.
Since bidding farewell to Meta, the New York City native has settled into her new home in Los Angeles with her husband and 3-year-old son. She’s learning to drive and still traveling the world, from Tokyo to Namibia. Over the past eight months, she has brought on legendary celebrity makeup artist Sir John as her podcast co-host, created products like a bathrobe and heatless curlers, and, most recently, unveiled her biggest product yet: the Naked Beauty Fragrance. Whether it’s home design or a product launch, Brooke’s execution combines great attention to detail with a touch of effortless glamour.
I may be biased—Brooke is a friend, and I’ve known her for over a decade (we first met on the NYC club scene in the early 2010s)—but she is one of my favorite people to follow on social media. I always feel like I’m learning something new from her, whether it’s mood boarding for her podcast rebrand, fresh makeup and skincare techniques, or how to create a new hit product. Brooke doesn’t just show you the polished final product; she takes you along for the entire ride.
Since starting my newsletter, Brooke has been one of my most requested guests. So, I’m thrilled to finally share this conversation, where we discuss why working in fashion wasn’t for her, what it’s like to have a powerhouse mom and be a powerhouse mom, and what the future of Naked Beauty looks like.
Brooke, what were you like as a child?
Brooke: Highly creative. It was probably annoying to everyone around me because I would stage these plays that I would make my entire family watch. Anytime I had an audience, I would stage some sort of play. I made my brother and my cousins play all of the roles. I would make music videos to the Spice Girls and block out every scene. I was always creating, always making things way before the internet, and just always really curious about things. I grew up in New York, so I feel like I was exposed to a lot, going to museums, dance shows, and going to Alvin Ailey at a young age. I understood that the creative arts were a big part of people's lives, and you could have a career in the creative arts, and I wanted to make things every chance I could.
I love that. Also, you're a Leo, and I feel like Leos actually don't get enough credit for their creativity.
Well, yes. I think the bad reputation of Leos is that Leos are obsessed with themselves and love attention. But one of the byproducts of being creative is that you need an audience for your creativity. Leo's just have the confidence to put it out there in the world, so people probably think that Leo's are really cringe. I just saw Jennifer Lopez’s birthday post, and I was like, this is the most Leo post ever. It was her in a white swimsuit, looking incredible. The caption was like, "This is me now," with a birthday cake emoji. And I was like, yes, Miss Leo.
Was there a part of you that wanted to be an actress or a performer?
Yes. I went to this little acting school in Midtown for five hours on Saturdays. I think it was around 11 or 12 when I told my parents I wanted to be an actress. They said, "Absolutely not." It was the first time I had ever heard my parents shut something down because my parents are usually like, "You can do whatever you want to do." And they were like, "It's not an option. That's not a career path for you. It's very difficult. You have to audition for roles. You may not get them. You have no control over your destiny. You will not be an actress." So I was like, "Oh, wow." So they nipped that in the bud.
Have you shared that before? I feel like this is an exclusive!
This is an exclusive. Honestly, thank God they did. Being an actress is hard, hard work. Now, I feel like that conversation would be different in 2024. Look at people—like Issa Rae—who write, direct, produce, and create their own vehicles that they also star in. But back then, in the early 2000s, if you were a Black woman trying to be an actress, you did not have the power to choose your roles. So I understand why they dissuaded me, but I modeled in high school, which is different from acting. I still had creative outlets.
What was it like having such a powerhouse mom? I am sure your dad’s also very powerful, but from knowing and following you, it's like your mom is just ... She's a star.
Yes. She's been a senior executive in marketing my whole life. My dad is an executive recruiter/headhunter, so they always talked about work. I was always aware that work was a big part of their lives. My mom was at Revlon for many years when I was growing up. I think she was the SVP of Color Cosmetics. So, she would bring home so much makeup, nail polish, and palettes. So that's also where I started really falling in love with beauty. I learned from a very young age that it is so important to love what you do. You have to be fired up and passionate about your work to sustain your adult life. It's not an option to not be passionate about your work. And I think I just saw that passion from my mom every single day when she came home.
I’m wondering how having a mom who had such a powerful job and, I assume, was working a lot of hours, affected you?
I remember there were definitely times when all of the mommies were at school for the bake sale, and my mom wasn't there. But she would always explain to me why she couldn't be somewhere. She would say, "We've got this big pitch at Verizon for our summer concert series, and this is the meeting." I remember she would bring home the commercials they were testing on TV and ask my brother and me, “Spot one or spot two?” or "Why do you like spot one or spot two?" And “we're focus grouping this, and this is what the focus group said.” So she brought us into her work, and it's so funny because now, as a mom, I try to do the same thing with Mavi. I tell him, "I have a live podcast show, so you know what mommy does in her office with her microphone. I'm going to do that in front of an audience," and I show him pictures and videos. So I think because she brought us into the work when she couldn't be at something, I felt like my mom had something important to do. I had this sense of pride and the understanding that she was building her career.
Yeah, I love that. I think there is really something to that, explaining to your child why you can't be present. Especially with the way children's brains work, there's no context for them. So it's like if you're not there for them or not able to give them something they need, they think it's because there's something wrong with them. So I think being able to really understand what mommy does and why she can't be there probably makes a world of difference.
So, shifting back to your career journey. At the beginning of your career, you started in fashion, you interned at Vogue.
Yes, I was diehard. I was a back-to-back summer intern and fall intern. I was like, I will be an editor at Vogue. I was delusional. I didn't realize literally what a slow climb that is, just the salary of it all.
The no-money of it all?
The no-money of it all, and most of the girls working there really don't need the money. So it's just a fun, cute little job to have. I still love Vogue. I feel like that's unpopular to say. Everyone's very anti-Vogue now, but I still love Vogue. Still subscribe. I've always loved fashion, but when I went to Stanford, I was exposed to Silicon Valley. It’s funny, the founders of Instagram were seniors when I was a freshman, and their first photo-sharing app was called Burbn. There was this idea that, ‘people in college are making companies. People my age are creating things.’ I think in New York, you are taught that you have to work your way up and spend decades, especially in fashion. You will spend decades working hard before you ever get respect or have any power. You’re young and you can have the best ideas in the world, and it’s just like…
It doesn't matter.
Brooke: Please be quiet. You just got here. I remember I did an internship at Balenciaga. Very, very French company, very Parisian management, and I said, ‘Hey guys, I have some ideas about the way you guys are doing social.’ And the offense that was taken to me even speaking up and saying that. They were offended that I even spoke up to say, ‘I have some ideas and this is how you could be doing it better.’
So I think that being exposed to young people in the tech sector, I realized, ‘Oh, working in tech is cool because your ideas matter, and if you have the analytics to prove it, it's kind of limitless.’ It's not hierarchical, as I'm sure you felt in fashion. There's something about super, super hierarchical work structures that is disheartening for people who are just hard workers and have ideas, and you're told to sit down, sit on your hands, and do what you're told.
How long did it take for you to realize that you didn't want to work in fashion?
I think a good four years. But I started going to the tech side of fashion. I did social media at Ralph Lauren, which I loved because it was so analytics-driven. Creative as well. I got to do the mood boards and campaign ideas, like ‘What if we introduced the new cashmere collection like this?’ I worked across so many aspects of the business. I worked on RL Home, I did a brief stint with Ralph Lauren Baby and Kids. It was so fun to work on the children's fashion show. I did women's collection primarily in Purple Label, the luxury brand, getting to understand the world of the VVIP consumer and just how many people invest hundreds of thousands of dollars in their wardrobe. It was really dynamic. Ralph Lauren is a massive company that operates in many different sectors. I loved it, but I didn't know if I wanted to do social media forever, so I want to have more broad marketing and strategy experience.
I moved over to Viacom, and then I had the opportunity to join Instagram. They were launching their first video product, it was called IGTV. I'm like a lifelong video lover. So they were creating this new team that was dedicated to creators. It was like this exciting new part of the social economy was the creator economy and influencers and how people use platforms like Instagram to build their brand and grow their audience. It was an incredible opportunity—and I was there for four years.
I left my job four years ago and transitioned out of the corporate world into working for myself. I've told my story a million times, so I was excited to talk to someone else who has done it and found success and can also shed some insight into what it's like. Did you struggle with having your identity attached to working at Instagram? Having a job at Instagram is pretty covetable.
It's covetable until you realize how annoying it can be when people hit you up every single day of your life, being like, "My cousin's best friend's sister is locked out of their Instagram account," or "I'm shadow banned. Help me." I would get tagged in these horrible things where people would be like, @Eva Chen @BrookeDeVard, fix this. It's stressful to work at a company with which so many people have issues. Some of that is customer service needs to be better so that employees don't have to bear this burden.
Now, I spoke on behalf of the company a lot, so I had my title in my Instagram bio, but even before I joined Instagram, I had started the Naked Beauty podcast. Even in my entry interviews, I made it very clear, ‘I have this existing podcast. I do beauty content. It is on a separate Instagram account called Naked Beauty. I will never put it on my personal Instagram account. I and made sure that I really went through the conflicts process for everything. So I always had this creative outlet. Again, that's a constant theme throughout my life, having these opportunities to be creative that were disconnected from my work at Instagram. So, I never felt overly tied to my employer in that way.
What made you decide to start the podcast? You already had this demanding corporate job at Viacom at the time. Why did you think, ‘oh, let me take on even more work?’
I have always done something on the side. I had a Tumblr where I shot Campus Street Style at Stanford called Seen at Stanford. I had a blog called The Glamorous Eccentric that I started in high school and maintained through college. I've always existed on the internet in one facet or another, and it’s incredibly healthy to have creative outlets outside of work—and this is all pre-monetization. Certainly, in 2017, no one thought about a podcast as a means to make money. The podcast ecosystem has matured a lot in the past eight years, and it is still difficult to make money having a podcast. So back then, it was like, you really are doing it for the passion of doing it. And I was a podcast listener. I was listening to Joe Rogan, and Marc Maron interviewing his friends in his basement, and I just loved these long-form conversations.
There was just something about the medium that I loved. This was also the same time Into The Gloss became very popular. I would read these long-form interviews of people discussing their beauty routines, where they were from, and their relationship with beauty, and I was like, "What if I could create a podcast that spoke to women I admire about beauty and self-care and still kind of got their life story?" Because in getting someone's beauty routine, you end up getting their life story. So, I created the podcast that I wanted to hear.
There you go! I know it is such a labor of love. I think that's how so many of these things on the internet even start because you just don't always expect that you're going to make money off of something you enjoy doing. Even with Instagram, everyone started doing it for the love of sharing, and then being able to monetize all of these things just completely changed the game.
And I think anyone who's in it for the money, that's not enough to sustain.
No, not at all. So at what point did you start to feel like, ‘I could do this podcast thing full time?’
You reach a point where you realize that the opportunity cost of you not chasing your dream or doing what you feel like you're meant to do is too high. I would use PTO days to interview people. I was doing my best to juggle both, but it got to a point where I was like, ‘I really just need to bet on building Naked Beauty and building a business fully.’ Even in the past year—it's been only a year, which is insane—I’ve been thinking about how to uplevel that? So now I'm launching a fragrance. I made a robe and heatless curlers, but now I'm doing fragrance. But how do I continue to take risks and expand my entrepreneurial muscles to do even more?
Was there a part of you that struggled with when to actually pull the trigger? That was the hardest part for me. I knew I had to leave for a long time, but I was just in my head a lot about when exactly to do it. I was like, okay, I'm going to do it before fashion week or after fashion week or after summer, and I kept setting these moving deadlines.
You know what? I had a pretty long runway of knowing that it was time, so I started accepting things that I just knew wouldn't work with the job. Shiseido invited me to Tokyo for a week, and I said yes. I did a partnership with CB2. I just started accepting things for the new year, knowing I wouldn't be working anymore. So some of it was that I forced myself, but I think, there is never a good time. It's funny hearing you say that because it also reminds me of people who ask when’s a good time to have kids? For any big life decision, there's never really a good time. There's never like, "Oh, this is the perfect time to have a child" or "This is the perfect time to change careers."
I think that's another thing that a lot of people struggle with when moving into an entirely new industry, which I did when I was 28. I moved from fashion into marketing strategy. I went from being a senior manager on path to becoming a director to being a manager again, and that felt devastating. But I had to also acknowledge that I did not have the skillset in this field to come in as a senior manager. I had to humble myself and work back up again. Then I transitioned from that industry, the entertainment industry, into tech, another new industry where I had to get the skills to build again. I couldn't go in as a senior PMM, and I had to go in at a much more junior position because I did not have the years of experience in tech that I had in all of these other industries. So I think anytime you're deciding to make a transition, leaving your job, going to a new career, moving, having a child, getting married, there's not an ideal time. You just have to do it.
So, it’s been a year, how has your life changed since leaving the corporate world?
Wow. I work harder than I’ve ever worked before, which is really saying something, considering I had a full-time job, was already a mom, and was doing a podcast. I remember thinking, "Oh, now I'll have more time for myself." But somehow, you just fill the hours. I think it comes from a place of excitement and opportunity. I just get excited about opportunities to partner with people and do cool things. I just had an opportunity to write a cover story for a magazine.
I know, I saw you were working on that, and I was really surprised.
Yeah. I was surprised, so I just said yes. I've never done that. I've been interviewing people for years and was an English major at Stanford. I was like, I can write. I read interviews in magazines. I can figure out how to do this. So, I get excited about opportunities that come my way, and I'm just eager to try new things. So, I definitely fill up my time. I could say no to more things, but I'm excited about the opportunities. And I think you work harder when you work for yourself, but it feels different. How would you describe it?
It's because you get to reap all the benefits. I'm down to bust my ass when I am reaping all the benefits. Busting your ass when someone else is getting rich off of your hard work is just a totally different situation. Also, we're doing work that we feel fulfilled by. That makes all the difference. Do you know your human design type?
I don't. And how do I find out what it is? Because people ask me and I'm like, "Is this a quiz everyone's taking?"
You need all the same birth information as you would for an astrology chart, but it will tell you your energy type.
Okay, what's yours?
I'm a generator. You need to look into it because it's also very helpful for how to work best with your energy. And so part of being a generator is I need to follow my curiosity and passion. And when I get in bed at the end of the day, I need to feel satisfied, like I got to do all the things that I wanted to do today, and I'm excited that I get to wake up tomorrow and do it again. And that is genuinely how I feel every day. And as long as I'm pursuing what I feel fulfilled by, I'm able to attract opportunities to me.
Yes. I think that's so accurate.
That's something I try to embody in the way that I work. I don't like to chase work opportunities. I don't like to chase down people. I can see so many examples of how I've always been able to attract ... Even all of the jobs that I've had came from just being in the right place at the right time and meeting the right person who either gave me the job or was the bridge that connected me to someone else to get the job. That's how it always worked. I never got a job just from a cold email and going in for a random interview (except for my very first job!).
Right. There's also such an authenticity to the brands you partner with. I'm always telling you that you make J.Crew look so cool. J.Crew has never been chicer, but it feels like there's a real depth to your partnerships. It's not just a one-and-done like, "Oh, we've never heard you talk about this brand." I feel like you'll talk about something organically, and then something will happen that’s paid, or even brands that have paid you, you'll still talk about them even when it's not a paid post. It just feels authentic.
I appreciate that. I wouldn't want to partner with a brand that I wouldn't want to talk about even if I weren't getting paid by them.
Yes. That's so important.
Can you share all the different ways that you are making money? Because people get confused about how people on the internet make money.
Yes. I am making money through my podcast and through brand partnerships on Instagram and TikTok. I am on YouTube, and I've just qualified for monetization on YouTube for my podcast because I've also introduced a visual element to the podcast. So now you can watch the podcast, which is cool. And then from products. So, I did my first product collab early last year. I made a cashmere robe for the Cashmere brand. I did my heatless hair rollers, which I did entirely independently, and I set up my Shopify shop. That was a great experience in an area of the business I was looking to grow. Now I have the fragrance that just launched. It's the most beautiful Neroli green tea, just an everyday sophisticated chic fragrance. So those are the main buckets. But in addition to all of that, I also do consulting. So I work with some beauty brands, but I've also done some consulting in the nonprofit space to help people with social strategy, event strategy, and marketing strategy—which is also great.
Yeah, absolutely. I feel like it's important for creators or creative entrepreneurs to be transparent about how they make money because I feel like people are very confused about how we make money. I mean, the last time I did a Q&A, someone was like, "What do you do for a living?" which feels a little shady, like I'm just on here posting for funsies. And then one of my followers responded after I answered the question, saying,"Lowkey, you do kind of seem like you don't have a job." I later thought that means I'm good at my job because I share my life in a way that makes it feel like I'm not working.
Yes. And that has to do with the effortlessness of your content and how it all feels authentic to you. It doesn't feel like you're sweating and hustling, trying to make a buck
I want to go deeper into the fragrance because you've been working on this for a long time.
A long time. It takes so long to develop a fragrance, and I think I've also realized that I'm a bit of a perfectionist. If I'm going to put my name on something…It has to be right. And I'm so grateful to Slate Brands. They have an incredible team of noses and chemists, and they create fragrances for brands for individuals. They were like, "You've really pushed us, but we think that it's gotten to such a great place, and it's such a unique scent.” And when people smell it, they're like, I've never smelled anything like this. That's the best compliment I could hear. I love a good fragrance, I buy so many fragrances, but I realize that I get sick of fragrances really quickly. It's like a love affair. Three weeks later, I'm like, this makes me feel nauseous.
Courtesy of Brooke DeVard
And not just because you're pregnant.
Not just because I'm pregnant. I also realized that as I surveyed the fragrance landscape, many fragrances are geared toward date night. The Naked Beauty fragrance you could wear for a date night, I certainly do. But what I wanted to create was something that you could wear every single day. This feeling of coming out of the shower, putting on your body oils, and just spraying on something that was a skin scent that you could wear all day, and made you feel relaxed, made you feel at ease.
That's why I have those green tea notes that are really grounding. I have sandalwood in it, but you also get this beautiful orange blossom and neroli, so it also elevates your mood. They really wanted something you could wear all day and not get sick of and grab day after day as part of your just scent DNA versus a highly fragrant vanilla, cherry concoction that you spray on for date night. Also, it’s unisex.
I am so excited to try it. Also, I love that you've really brought your community into the process of it, and even having them vote on what bottle to use. I love how often you show behind-the-scenes of a process. Sometimes I can struggle with how do you show behind the scenes? Do you just do a big unveil? It doesn't feel like, oh, you've given everything away.
Yeah. People follow you not just for the finished product. It's bringing people along for the journey. I also think about something Kimberly Drew said to me when I interviewed her on the podcast about possibility models. I think that that's a really powerful way of thinking about sharing things on social media, like showing people this is possible. This is something that you too could do if you wanted. And I think the more behind-the-scenes you show and the more insight you share on the process, the more it allows other people to realize, ‘Oh, this is something that I too could do if I wanted,’ versus the smoke and mirrors, here's the finished, perfect polished product.
Courtesy of Brooke DeVard
You are doing a lot right now. You're also pregnant with your second child, which is so exciting. How do you make time for yourself, or when do you actually make time for yourself? Can you make time for yourself?
Oh, I absolutely make time for myself. I say how I'm so busy all the time, which I am during working hours. But my nighttime routine—I don't know how people wash their face in five minutes. I cannot relate. I am spending a good 20 to 30 minutes doing my nighttime skincare routine, putting on a podcast, lighting a candle, really cleansing my face. I feel like that time to yourself just mentally prepares you for bed in a way that you can’t if you just go from running around, eating dinner, washing the dishes, scrolling on your phone, and then washing your face for five minutes. I think you have to ease into bedtime, and for me, my nighttime skincare routine is that sacred time that I have to myself in the mirror.
I get annoyed when my husband comes into the bathroom while I'm doing my nighttime skincare. I'm like, ‘Can you just not be in here right now? I just need me time.’ My son is asleep at that point. I am not a morning person. God bless morning people. I put something on Threads, and I ask people, ‘Ideally if you didn't have an alarm clock, what time would you wake up?’ I forgot your response. You said something really early.
Oh, yeah. I wake up 7, 7:30 on my own.
Insane to me. 11:00 AM would be my actual normal if left to my own devices, and I didn't have responsibilities, and I could wave a wand and say, ‘what time would you want to have to wake up?’ It'd probably be like 10:30, 11.
I've always been a morning person since I was a child. I think literally my body is just programmed to wake up around 7, 7:30. But lately I've been waking up at 8:00 AM which is late.
Chrissy, 8:00 AM. Yeah. I don't know. I just didn't inherit the morning person gene. I actually can't even speak in the morning. My husband gets so annoyed. He's like, ‘Are you warmed up yet? Have you defrosted from the night before?’ And I'm like, ‘No’ So I think if I were a morning person, I'd have this whole wellness self-care routine early morning thing, but especially being on the West Coast, you wake up and it is go-time. It's like the messages and emails, and everything is coming in. So I have a pretty intense start to my day. So the end of the day is really when I wind down, have time to myself, watch my shows. My husband and I are really big on watching our shows together. We were off our show watching routine, and I was like, I'm feeling a lack of intimacy because we have not watched a show together and I’m just doing my skincare routine at night.
What show are you watching right now? I know you usually get your community involved.
Yes. I don't know if I'll be galvanizing support around the one I'm watching now because it's a little intense. I'm watching Your Honor, starring Bryan Cranston. It's set in New Orleans. It's really interesting, but it's a little dark, a little violent, but it's very good. I'm really enjoying it, and I'm trying to get my husband to watch Sex in the City. We've gotten through five episodes, and he's like, okay, I get it. I'm like, just be a good partner and watch this entire show with me, all six seasons, and just get on board.
To wrap this up, what's the future of Naked Beauty Podcast? Obviously, you brought on a co-host, which is a huge deal. Sir John. I love him.
We love Sir John. Yeah, it actually happened so naturally. There are very few people that I felt like it felt right to share a microphone with. Every single meeting I had with Sir John, and as he talked about his platform and what's important to him, I was like, there is such good overlap here. We care about the same things. We're excited about the same things. We want to have meaningful conversations. And we also both care about the beauty industry and feel like the beauty industry can be better and that there can be more depth. And he's just a wonderful person. Everyone who knows Sir John loves Sir John. Even if you meet Sir John for 10 minutes, you're like, ‘I love him.’ And we've just become such close friends through the process. I think we have four more episodes together. I will be sad when we part ways because we were doing a limited series together. We're doing our first live show together on Saturday, which I'm so, so excited about.
He's such an esteemed, accomplished makeup artist, but way beyond being a makeup artist, he's a true creative visionary and has so much to offer. I'm excited. I want him to start his own podcast. I'm like, "Use Naked Beauty as your launching pad, and then you go and do your own thing." But right now, we're just having so much fun co-hosting together, and I think I really just want to continue creating meaningful content. I'm so grateful for the listeners that tune in every Monday to Naked Beauty and make this show a part of their lives. I was in London and I did a very impromptu meetup, and it was so cool just to meet these girls in London that are like, ‘Yeah, every Monday I am with you. I'm listening to you and your guests.’ That’s what keeps me going. Just knowing that the show is meaningful to people and a part of their lives.
Final question. What's bringing you joy right now?
Celebrating my pregnancy because the first time I found out I was pregnant was in January of 2020. We all know what happened in March of 2020, and it was just six months of complete isolation, masks, sweatpants. It was a dark time, and I’m able to celebrate my pregnancy now, and put on an outfit that accentuates the bump. I'm also pregnant now, Post-Ri pregnancy era. I'm trying to slay the pregnancy looks. It's bringing me a lot of joy to celebrate how my body is changing and just this special time that I’m carrying life in me. I don't think I got to really enjoy my first pregnancy just because of COVID. There was just a lot of anxiety that didn't allow me to enjoy it, and now I'm really, really enjoying it. So that's bringing me joy lately.
